USE DATA AT OWN RISK!
10mm Reloaded Blog
Took a bit of a longer break than I thought, hope to get back to the Pressure Trace platform this spring.
Added a few bullets to the library: GT Bullets 180gr HP and a box of 180gr Golden Sabers. Details here.
Didn't die, just taking a break. Back at it this fall :)
Loaded the first batch of Federal Syntech 165s today. Wasn't belling quite enough and noticed how easily the coating shaved off.
So, hammer test!
Wednesday's chrono results here.
Pressure Trace II platform build now spanning 4 pages, the latest is here.
Federal 165 Syntech arrived. Details in the usual place, but this doesn't
look too good!
Did some testing with the Pressure Trace platform today, results can be seen at the bottom of
Going back to the Lee taper die
Federal Premium Syntech 165s inbound - curious about their take on a 'coated' bullet, how hard the core is, etc.
Update to the Pressure Trace platform build page here.
A few 'generic' traces posted over at
Loaded up the first batch for testing with the Kaw Valley barrel, list is here.
RE Ginex Unis primers: A bit of range time today, two mags of seated-by-Lee-hand-primer, and two mags that were seated with the single stage. Zero problems, all went bang.
Hardly definitive, but the issue seems to be with the turret press. I'll attempt to figure out why, as it's not been an issue with
all the other brands.
Split the Pressure Trace II platform build into
2 pages 3 pages.
Page 1: Initial build.
Page 2: Updates & modifications.
Page 3: More progress.
New barrel for the Pressure Trace II platform arrived (bottom of page) from Kaw Valley.
Lee pistol molds do not suck!
Arsenal 403-180-WFN showed up :)
Yesterday's results can be found here.
Prima V is pretty much topped out for my 180gr load, and landed about where I thought it would. A great low velocity plinking powder.
I'm working up slowly with IMB Blue, next outing will be dedicated to reaching it's safe limits. I have a good feeling about this powder :)
Absolutely beautiful day to go shooting :)
Chrono'd a few loads, specifically IMR Blue and Prima V, and did some primer comparisons. I'll get the results posted tomorrow, likely.
Made real progress with the Pressure Trace II platform as well, that update can be seen
A lot of time, energy, and money has gone into this Pressure Trace project and it feels good to finally see results.
About 10% of the loads primed with Ginex needed a second strike, all were seated on the turret press and I believe not to full depth.
I'll load a batch up using a hand primer and post the results.
Ran into some frustration with Ginex primers, explanation can be found here.
Gempro 250 & AWS Gemini-20 digital scale review.
A comparison between 10mm & 10mm MAG cases.
Wednesday's results here. The master load file has been updated and is linked from the
Yesterday was a good day.
I'll update the main load file later this week, but initial tests of IMR Blue and Vectan Prima V worked well.
Usual warning, these are undocumented loads, use at own risk!
IMR Blue (WAG on this one, I started low)
155gr MG JHP / 7.4gr IMR Blue / CCI 300 / new Starline @ 1.255 = 780fps (just enough to cycle a G20 w/ 20# spring)
Vectan Prima V
180 RMR plated RN / 5.4gr Prima V / CCI 300 / new Starline @ 1.260 = 960fps
Regarding the Pressure Trace II platform, below are posts I made at GT & 10mm-firearms:
"Removed the strain gauge, "seasoned" the barrel with a few spicy loads, and attached a new gauge. Tested today, regardless of the load all traces flat-top at 20K psi. Sent everything over to RSI, have a suspicion that it has to do with my barrel chamber walls, specifically how thin they are.
If that's what comes back from RSI I have a plan B :) "
From Jim at RSI (Recreational Software, producers of the Pressure Trace II)
"The problem is that a 10mm barrel is so thin it exceeds the normal
design parameters of the system. It is designed so with a normal
bolt action rifle and 1.25" O.D./.308 dia chamber, anything that
exceeds safe pressures will flat line. There is a workaround.
The above spread sheet provides instructions for manipulating the data
so things fall into a normal range. The numbers are already entered
for your barrel so start with step 3.
Once microstrains have been captured and saved to file they cannot be
changed but after you alter the dimensions to fool the system into
having enough range for the thin barrel, the system will no longer flat
line. Microstrain values will no longer be valid."
A public thanks to Jim at RSI for getting back to me so quickly!
I'm going to try Jim's suggestion, perhaps as early as this weekend. If it works, fantastic. Otherwise I'll get an ASR pistol barrel or buy a .40 blank and have it reamed.
I believe the end result of this project will be success :)
Weather is finally letting up! Was able to get out and run a handful of hot loads through the PT II platform barrel, attach a new strain gauge, it's ready to resume
Uncharted territory, my initial load of IMR Blue is 7.4gr behind a 155 JHP. Flying blind here, I only have Hodgdon's updated burn rate chart (almost meaningless), and a comment
from Hodgdon that while Blue uses the same bushings for shotgun, pistol loads would use less than Dot.
If everything works out I'll be testing tomorrow, in 80 degree sunshine :)
Ordered an Arsenal 403-180 mold. Good looking bullet!
I won't discuss the current meteorological conditions, other than to say I'm considering relocation!
Continuing to tweak the Pressure Trace platform, hope to publish results soon.
Have been checking PV regularly for Unequal, no availability so far. Checked Cabela's today and they
didn't have it, but did grab a # of Blue.
I'll work up some loads this weekend :)
Lousy weather continues, such is life during the last month of winter in the Pacific Northwest :)
Pressure Trace platform has had a full shake down, and initial results are a bit ambiguous. Testing duplicates of published loads (of course there are variables / my conditions & equipment differ) yielded psi 4-6K below expected. There's an explanation from Recreational Software for this, but I'm not ready to accept what's being reported. I'm going to settle-in,
or 'season' the chamber with several hot loads, attach a new strain gauge, and test again - just as soon as time and weather permit.
Picked up an Accurate 40-195G mold. Well made, drops bullets nicely. Can be seen here.
Going through NOE's catalog righ now :)
I've completed my Pressure Trace II platform build, can be viewed here.
REALLY lousy weather has prevented any testing, hopefully there's a decent weekend in the next month or so.
Loaded up a primer comparison with Zero's 165 JHP & 11.7gr of #7. Of the 9 different primers in the test, Ginex required the most force to seat (new Starline brass), with Tula, Fiocchi, & S&B needing slightly
less. Remington's 2 1/2 was noticeably the easiest, Federal, WLP, & CCI seemed about right in the middle.
Starting loads for Prima V were pretty much a WAG, ended up using Titegroup 180gr data. Fairly confident that no damage can be done with 5.0gr of any powder I own, regardless, the Spectra gloves will be worn :)
Ginex, Fiocchi, and Prima V arrived :).
Haven't been able to find Ginex and Fiocchi locally, so I bit the bullet. 5K and 1.5K inbound. With those quantities I sure hope
there's no issues :)
Added a few lbs of Prima V to the order, suspect it'll work great for soft loads with heavy bullets.
Work on the PT II "platform" has officially begun, should be complete in the next couple of months :)
A bit interesting:
New IMR powders
I'll be picking up Unequal and Blue when it's available :)
A member over at GT posted bullet pics from a company I hadn't heard of, a week later I received a very well package box of 200gr WFN goodness
(pic 1 / pic 2 ).
Details in the usual spot.
Montana Bullet Works also sent a sample of their coated bullets, nice!
A bit wider meplat than Beartooth, look forward to loading em' up!
Saturday was good! Didn't quite get the high temps I was hoping for, but it did reach 87.
The intent was to run some of the hotter loads to see if any needed to be reduced due to temperature sensitivity. After reviewing the #s, no loads will be reduced.
STEEL continues to be erratic. Either I'm on the low and high end, or it's just not suited to the 10. I'll try a few more loads, and if it doesn't work out I'll abandon it.
Swapping out the LEE taper crimp for a Redding ($33) has been worth it. Not that the LEE didn't work, rather I get more consistent results with the two-step taper design of the Redding. It's a bit early
for assumptions, but loadings that previously had feeding issues are now 100% reliable.
I pride myself in accuracy through all aspects of this project. That said, it's a bit frustrating that the 155 MG / 8.5gr Unique load must have had the
I simply don't see the load @ 60 degrees producing 1,326 fps, and @ 85 producing 1,189 fps.
Tested Underwood's 200gr JHP & 200gr hardcast, both are advertised at 1,250 fps. With a 20# spring and 5.15" barrel, the 200 HC ran 1,145, and the JHP 1,224. Respectable #s, but short of advertised.
At 78 different bullets I think I've covered the spectrum pretty well (save solids), and unless I find something interesting... Powders, I'd like to add Prima V and American Select, otherwise I think
I'm done there as well.
The project will continue, but at a much slower pace. The next stage is to get a workable Pressure Trace platform built, and report hottest-load findings. A fine winter project :)
I also plan on some limited 100 yard accuracy testing. I realize my complete lack of capabilities will mean the results are null & void before I even
post them, but hey, range time is range time :)
H&S 180 RNFPs showed up, details where I usually put them.
J-Ames Bullets got back to me, and unfortunately don't sell sample packs, only quantities of 250 and up. I might order their
140s, but unlikely. Just don't need 250ct of anything.
Saturday is looking good for chrono time :)
I'm back, kinda :)
Loaded up some (previously tested) 'hot' recipes for warmer weather results. Curious how Unique, PP, 800X, HS-6, CFE, 3N37, 3N38, #7, Longshot, D037.02, & #9 behave in 90+ temps.
Underwood arrived, thinking about pulling down a few and loading the components into new Starline...
If the stars align I'll be entering new data this time next week :)
Inbound: H&S 180 RNFP. These have a profile similar to Blue Bullets' 200gr offering, haven't seen it from any other vendor in this weight. Kinda wish J-Ames would get back
to me regarding sample paks, interested in their 175, 160, & 140gr profiles.
Beuller, Beuller, Beuller...
Work is a bit insane, so no immediate plans to update.
Inbound: 180 & 200gr Underwood, for pre measurements.
Reminder: What works in my gun may not in yours. Should you choose to duplicate any of the loads I've published you do so at your own risk. PRE, NCI, & DC
should be considered useless as indicators of anything.
Read at least a couple reloading books, work off data from those books, do not substitute components.
Loaded a primer comparison: 11.7gr #7, 165 Win TC in new Starline. CCI 300, 350, Tula, S&B, WLP, Federal, and Remington.
First time using Tula, of the primers I've tried they require the most force to seat (S&B would be 2nd, CCI 3rd).
Was able to take a pretty decent image showing all seven primers, view here.
Finally! Almost forgot how much I enjoy trigger / chrono time :)
Only 26 loads tested, but continued GM3, STEEL, & 572, plus initial tests with e3 and 20/28. Data here.
More testing needed with STEEL to decide if it's viable, might abandon it. e3 loads were very soft, GM3 continues to post low ES.
Slug Fest 180s arrived.
Picked up a brick of Tula primers, so next outing a comparison. Have been looking for Magtech locally (Everglades has em', not paying Hazmat for 1K), no luck.
Helping a family member move Saturday, if there's enough time at the end of the day I'll should be able to pull the trigger on about 10 loads.
Most interested in e3, 20/28, STEEL, & 572, so that's what I'm taking down.
Thinking of adding Prima V, American Select, & WST to the mix. Slug Fest 180s should arrive tomorrow.
48 powders, 76 bullets, 750 loads - 1 caliber. Seems sane to me :)
Weather sucks, so no chrono time. Maybe next weekend :)
Unique Precision Bullets 155gr RN arrived. Details in the usual spot, or see them here.
Found a few lead coated profiles & weights I haven't loaded, so:
155gr RN inbound from Unique Precision Bullets; Working on getting
155g & 190gr from Lucky13, 180gr from Slug Fest Bullets and Steel Valley Casting.
This project simply doesn't require the quantities lead coated are typically sold in, and while many companies offer sample paks, those that normally don't have
been more than accommodating.
Work and summer schedules are a bit nuts, might be able to get some chrono time in this Saturday :)
The Pressure Trace II has been in hand for a few months, and while I had hoped for a working platform to play around with during summer temps,
that doesn't seem likely. Donor barrel purchased, and a solid design has been detailed, but there are legalities, and I'd rather it be done right.
I don't expect to take the position that results will be definitive, but they should be interesting.
Stripped the analytics code from the most frequented pages, should stop the script warnings.
Loaded up a bit of e3 & 20/28. e3 is working for 40 Major, but how that translates to 10mm case volume is anybody's guess. Probably should reduce the
case volume and ladder the OAL. Regardless, anything over .4280 and I'm single tenths going up.
Last round with STEEL has me a bit skittish - crap on the chrono table says something was spitting (must be the reason for the wild readings), but 2 grains up
from start, no increase in case expansion, and + 40fps = not normal. Primers (voodoo) looked good, and I know it's been pushed a grain and a half over my top
load. I've also read that lot-to-lot this stuff is all over
the place. I'm going back down and climbing again, this time with the chrono at 15'.
Cleaned the G20's upper half, not nearly as gunked as I thought it would be. Hopefully light strikes are gone.
Saturday was good, cooler than normal for this time of year, and I had to take a few breaks due to rain, but range time is range time :)
Missouri's 155 SWC feeds at 1.240 in the stock barrel, Bayou's 175 I can't make work.
STEEL results were all over the place, and some of the numbers were pretty unlikely. I think the loads were spitting, need to move the chrono out to 15'.
I'll retest. Possibly have the same issue with Herco, though high ES #s could be due to MX brass having varying neck tension.
Experienced light primer strikes at the end of the chrono session, had to restrike several rounds. Figure after 2.5K through the G20, much of it my own
haggered range brass, the top half is due for a strip & clean ;)
It's clear I jumped to conclusions regarding the LW 5.2 comped results, need to spend a bit of time going through the thought process.
180 IDP, 9.0 PP, new Starline
Stock barrel / spring: .4333 1,238 fps
LW 5.15" / 20#: .4292 1,270 slight smile
LW 5.2" / 20#: .4290 1,272 slight smile
LW 5.2" comp / 20#: .4286 1,298 slight smile
Picked up 20/28 & e3 - need to gather a bit more data before I determine a starting point (e3 will NOT be pushed).
Added the Hydra Shok, HST, & Hi-Shok bullets to the library - indicated that they were pulls (bullet length and dia could vary from new).
Get to spend the day chrono'n tomorrow :)
I'll be testing a good number of loads and doing a direct comparision between stock, LW 5.15", LW 5.2", & 5.2" comped.
American Reloading grab bag showed up, and the bullets look really good (enough that I'm going to add them to the library). The 250ct was advertised as
180 Hydra Shok
180 Gold Dot
135 Guard Dog
What I received:
180 XTP qty 46
180 Hydra Shok qty 84
180 Hi-Shok qty 26
180 HST qty 14
180 Gold Dot qty 10
180 FMJ qty 12
180 plated qty 4
155 HST qty 8
135 HST qty 9
135 Guard Dog qty 47
+ few misc
In terms of furthering the catalog of results I think it was $27 well spent.
Loaded up the resized .410 215s with #9 & PP, 165 Egglestons with 6 different powders, and continued on with the 401-175.
Chamber dimensions, this I have been contemplating. I've read that LW chambers have consistency issues, sent an email to LW asking what
it should be. In the meantime, I decided to thoroughly clean the chambers of each barrel (4.6, 5.15, 5.2) and remeasure, marking a spot
on the calipers so I'd measure at the same depth.
Stock 4.6": 0.4340
LW 5.15": 0.4300
LW 5.2": 0.4310
This contradicts what I've previously stated, and the numbers entered on the header of the master file (now corrected).
I also have a LW 4.6" barrel that's unfired, and in the hands of my gunsmith. I think I'll ask him to measure each one.
Inbound: American Reloading is offering a grab bag of 250ct that contains: 135 Grain Guard Dog EFMJ, 180 Grain Speer Gold Dot HP, 180 Grain XTP HP,
180 Grain Hi Shok HP, 180 Grain HST HP, 180 Grain Hydra Shok HP, 180 Grain FMJ, 180 Grain Plated, & 155 Grain HST HP. No way of knowing what
quantities of each, but for $27 shipped why not :)
T&B's 41 Mag bullets arrived, and here's what I did with them :)
Still processing what to do with the 5.2" LW barrel - Open it up to .4340, leave it out of the mix, or run it as is.
Inbound: Eggleston 165gr TC coated.
Also: Ordered a sample pak of 215gr .410 SWC (should work well) from Travis at T&B. I'll soak em' in white gas to strip the lube, swage down to .401, coat in RAL, and see
what can be done with #9 & STEEL. Pretty sure I need to find another hobby...
1/3 of the way through measuring brass and one thing is clear, the LW 5.15" & 5.2" chambers are not the same. Longshot loads fired in the 5.2" barrel (with comp) show smiles, yet only measure
.4285. 5.2" chamber mikes .4300, or 4 thousandths smaller than the 5.15" barrel. I'm DC'n any loads that show a smile, however slight, at least for now.
Next chrono session I'll run same-loads through the 5.15", 5.2" bare, and 5.2" with comp.
Tighter chamber usually equals greater pressure, but enough to explain the #7 load comparison below? 100 fps? Yep, see below.
Big jump also seen with .2gr increase of 800X pushing 401-145. 1,358 vs 1,469, 5.15" vs 5.2" comp.
Other loads are showing the same increase.
Lesson: ANY change = Rework the load!
Might continue testing with the 5.15" barrel only, keep the numbers simple.
Guees I could have the 5.2" barrel's chamber opened up, or be thrifty knowing I'll get the same speed with 1/2 grain less :)
All Powders has been updated sans case measurements, I'll start that process tomorrow. Kinda fried, and haven't gone through everything, but the one screwy thing I noticed:
401-145 1.245 13.6 #7 @ 58 degrees = 1,466 out of LW 5.15" w/ 20#
401-145 1.245 13.6 #7 @ 65 degrees = 1,569 LW 5.2" comped w/ 24#
Something ain't right. Gonna retest 13.4, 13.6, 13.8.
Maybe I should slug the new barrel...
As said, fried, so this might be a broken thought process: I don't measure pre in the field, only looking for smiles and flattened primers when laddering up. The new Lone Wolf comped barrel,
it really reduces muzzle flip / felt recoil - more of a shove into the hand than climb. There's the potential for "whoa!', that was hot!" to be obscured by a compensator. Yes, there's the chrono, and
brass condition, but 560 previous loads have taught me how this gun reacts, how it recoils. The comp changes that, and I need to be cognizant. Can't be blasting through
a ladder thinking "tame, keep going".
Tested two loads before I lost the screw that secures the scope mount, so two targets to post. Making progress! 20 yards: 140
Bayou TC 5.8gr GM3 & 165 Golden Saber 12.4gr #7.
4x4 (wood, not truck) barrier test. Terribly, exciting - not really :)
Awesome day, bloody awesome day!
1: A coated Beartooth 200gr WN will clock 50fps faster than as shipped with conventional lube.
2: STEEL has potential, and heavy recoil. All but the top load spit unburned powder at the chrono screwing up the readings, 11.5 behind 200gr Bayou RN ran pretty clean and
produced 1,200 fps. Up to 13.5gr next outting.
3: The LW compensator performed very well taming recoil and slowing the slide (my perception).
4: 572 works fine in the 10, case measurements will tell if it has the potential to produce any velocity.
5: Competition Electronics emailed a patched Digital Link app, correcting the batch export shot ordering. It works :)
6: Lost a very small screw that attaches the Mako mount, so no amusing targets this trip.
7: Not that I was after it, but hit 817 ft lbs - with a 147gr bullet.
Tested about 90 loads, lots to go through!
RMR 155gr pulls came in and they look really good, might have to order some more. Summers Enterprises 180s arrived - coated a few and loaded some
for comparison between PC & traditional lube. Leatherheads also showed up, loaded a short ladder with Unique behind the 155s (have an odd feeling
the 155s will be my new favorite bullet). All details over on the
bullet library page.
Hitting the road at 5:30AM tomorrow for a full day shooting, it's been 1 1/2 months and I'm looking forward to getting out of town :)
LW threaded barrel and comp arrived. Doesn't look bad. Pic 1 &
Get to test it this weekend :)
Spent about 20 minutes sorting one of the American Reloading 500ct "mixed weight" boxes. Not that there was any expectation as to specific count per weight, but it would have be nice if the weights were more
evenly balanced - about 2/3 were 180s, bulk of the rest 165s, few 155s. Picture.
The variance between bullets of a specific weight was at most 2gr, with two bullets being completely random (a 147 and a 170). For the price I'm happy :)
Leatherheads' 155 & 180s shipped today (they were down to move operations, so the delay is understandable). Also got an email from Donny over at Summers Enterprises, he also shipped today (pretty
Note: I won't be adding the American Reloading pulls to the bullet library due to limited availability.
Ordered a 5.2" LW threaded barrel w/ 30deg rear vent comp. The idea: Just before the bullet exits the comp, the barrel will be pulled forward, retarding
unlock, allowing pressures to drop a bit, slowing the slide, a bit. It's an experiment that's not intended to reduce recoil, though that will be
an effect (one that I hope to subjectively measure and convey), rather to temper slide battery by hot loads turned hotter during summer temps - loads
that may end being reduced. August will tell :)
I will be doing direct comparisons between the 5.15 and 5.2" comped, possibly this weekend :)
My post over at GT:
New Starline brass, 200 XTP
Brass was sized and minimally flared with Lee dies, no crimp.
The longest that wouldn't hang up in the mag was 1.282, chambered (dummy rnds) and ejected fine in both barrels.
What QL thinks:
Using a case capacity of 1.558cm, 200 XTP.
1.260 case full @ 10.75gr
1.282 case full @ 11.46gr
My seater stem significantly compresses the XTP's nose at 13.4gr, but it now appears I may have an additional 3/4 of a grain to play with :)
I realize I could replace the seater stem to address nose collapse, but at 1.260 and 13.4gr of #9 there's heavy powder compression, enough that the bullet has to be seated in stages or it'll back out.
/ end post /
Clays loads are just "something to do", and if a very soft shooting, and accurate, load is found, then win! No, I will not be pushing Clays.
Just discovered Summers Enterprises, and Donny has very good prices (.401 180 TC $27
per 500)! I did inquire about having the bullets shipped unsized / unlubed so that I could coat with RAL, the very quick response was "no problem!"
Understandably there's a wait time for special orders, and I chose not to wait :)
Inbound 500ct Summers Enterprises' 180 TCs - I'll strip with white gas and coat some of them, run the rest with the conventional lube, and post the results.
Slugged the LW barrel with a .452 PB ball, and I come up with .390 at the bore and .400 at the groove.
RMR 155gr FMJ RNFP inbound.
Continues to rain...
Well, as you can probably tell, most everything (the important parts anyway) has been migrated over to 10mm-reloaded.com. It took about 8 hours, as all content was created the old fashioned way, with
spreadsheets and html editors, and every link had to be edited, so certainly there's bound to be broken pages and such. I'll continue checking and fixing :)
Amazing weather here and I've needed to stay local due to work, and the moment I can break away it starts raining! Next decent weekend I'm out chrono'n, do have 145 loads to test!
Rain + chrono = no. Perhaps next weekend.
Leatherheads is back up and running! My excitment isn't an endorsement for a company I've never used, rather my ability to finally
order these. I've been wanting a coated 155 in a non SWC profile and these are the only that I'm aware of.
Hopefully they'll arrive before I head out next :)
When I first got the G20 I tried the different backstraps (dry fire), and really hated them - hated, them. I've been running the gun naked, but last night I decided to try again. Bubblegum the 'medium'
backstrap fixes my hand's purchase on that 2x4 of a grip! I've got medium size hands, and while trigger reach isn't an issue, the bottom of the G20's grip puts odd pressure on the side of my palm, regardless
of how I grip the gun. With the insert in place my palm filled, and I'm no longer tightening my grip when I pull the trigger. 2K through the gun and I just figure this out - I'm a special kind of idiot :)
American Reloading mixed weight pulls arrived today - Looks pretty good (plinking) for the price. Quick glance and
here are some of the worst offenders.
Initial loading of 155 MG in Herco (8.2) and 572 (7.0) are tame, will ladder up.
STEEL has me wishing I had a Ransom rest. 200gr Bayou w/ CCI 350s @ 10.5, 11.0, & 11.5gr. I may back it down a bit, and will likely climb. Hope to get out this weekend.
Received an email from American Reloading yesterday, pkg has shipped and will arrive
Monday Tuesday - much quicker than anticipated!
This past Sunday's PV order has also shipped, and will arrive Tuesday. Hodgdon posted 572 40 S&W data, so WAG just got an easy button :)
3N38, Herco, 572, & STEEL inbound. Pretty curious about 572, expect good #s from STEEL.
Loaded up some heavier bullets with N350. Still think VV's data is wonky, but I'm approaching cautiously.
LW plunger & spring
GlockKraft (Overwatch) with gen4 polished bar
Sevigny FO sights
Dry firing this setup feels very good, better than with the "-" connector, and the trigger has almost no over travel - to the point where I abandoned the idea of tapping a stop for the rear of the trigger bar.
During dry firing I noticed that I'm tightening my grip as I squeeze the trigger, something I don't do with my nines. Another thing to 'fix' :)
IDP #9 @ 1.240 feeds with slide release, in the stock barrel.
Missouri IDP #9 came in yesterday, and being a SWC I anticipated feed issues like I had with Bayou's 175. I loaded inert from 1.275 down to 1.215, no go in the Lone Wolf
Rocky Mountain Reloading 180gr plated came in a few days ago, and as usual I photographed, measured, and weighed. Opened the 'bullet library' file to enter the pertinents and found I already
owned the bullet. Now that's funny!
New Sevigny front sight arrived, and installed. This time I used blue Loctite. $48 later...
Missouri IDP #9 155gr inbound. Looking forward to pushing these BHN 18 bullets to no accuracy :)
Recently upgraded my Digital Link's Android app, new feature allows the bulk export of all strings in .csv format. Only problem is the app decided what order to put them in - not all that handy when
shooting strings grouped by firearm configuration or type. Contacted Competition Electronics about this, and after a few short emails was told the developer had found a bug, corrected it, and attached
was the newest version. Sideloaded my device and look forward to using it. Really solid customer support in my opinion!
Starline responded, suggested I shouldn't be concerned with availability :)
Loaded 180 XTP Longshot from 8.8 to 9.6 in .2 increments. Knowing Longshot in my gun I'm not sure 9.4 & 9.6 will get fired.
It's been suggested that brass is made in 'runs', and once a run is complete tooling is switched over to manufacture another caliber. It's also been suggested that, for less in-demand calibers,
availability may be an issue. I have no knowledge if these suggestions are true or false, though they seem to make sense - enough so that I contacted the good people at Starline for an answer. I fully
intend to continue this project, but budgets are not unlimited. If it's prudent to stock up now I'll find a way to do so :)
Current Starline inventory is approximately 1,200 new, and 1,800 MX - enough to keep the wheels turning for a short drought :)
Speaking of multiple-fired brass: I've stated that I'd only use new, and that my unscientific method of PRE would be convoluted by mixing in used. I obviously haven't done that. I get that work hardened
brass skews PRE measurements, it is what it is.
American Reloading is having a sale on mixed weight (155, 165, & 180) 500ct of Federal jacketed for $24.99 w/ free shipping (I grabbed two). I understand that cards get charged immediately (mine already
has), ship times can be as long as 4 weeks, and that little or no communication is possible. For the price I'm willing to gamble, and wait :)
Picked up an unused Pro Chrono and light kit for a very good price - long drives and limited range sessions make having this backup a good purchase :)
Work is requiring I stay local for the next few weeks, so no range sessions planned for the immediate future. I'll take this time to go through the master file to see what loads need bumped up :)
Note: NCI & DC are in a constant state of flux, and are only a recommendation to myself. Load at own risk!
180gr RMR plated RN inbound.
That's bullet # 60. Currently at 36 powders. If every bullet only had one load per powder, the total load count would be 2,160. Guess I'd better get busy :)
Decided to install the LW FPS that I've had for a while, and of course that meant a slide tear down. Trigger break inconsistency could be a number of things: Poor design; Poor combination of components; 4 lbs
of crap packed in with the FPS. Really, I had no idea it had been that long since I thoroughly cleaned it :)
We'll see if the clean / new FPS & spring makes any difference.
Saturday was another great day to chrono! Tested about 70 loads, and only with a few did I get missed readings.
Starting loads for A0, A1, & GM3 turned out less than that, with GM3 barely cycling the G20 (24#). Case expansion with all three powders was minimal, and I've already started the process
of laddering up.
I continue to struggle with accuracy, to the point of assigning myself title of "2nd worst in the world", saving the #1 spot for the person who actually wants that title. This session I ran: 5.15",
DAT v2, stock connector w/ 6# spring. Trigger 'felt' better than the previous setup of DAT / 3.5# connector w/ stock spring, yet wasn't really consistent - never was confident I knew where it'd break.
Regardless, lack of trigger satisfaction isn't the issue. I'm pretty sure I just suck...
One discovery: I'm using a MTM rest, and the part the gun comes in contact with is covered with a 'grippy' rubber. The Mako mount attaches to the gun in two places, one being the rail - the mount
is what contacts the rest. I found that adjusting aim / grip / angle of gun resulted in varying pressure on the mount (gun rail), and that part of the gun is flexible. In
essence I was 'adjusting' my scope, or point of impact. Here are some target examples, that I think are the result of
what I just described.
Maybe my expectations aren't inline with the capabilities of this setup. Maybe I need to 'learn' the gun, and keep tweaking. Maybe, like I already suggested, I just suck :)
Since I have many examples of targets like this, it's probably not the gun ;)
Loaded a bit of N105 & N350. Viht's load ranges continue to seem wonky, and I'll probably load right past max.
Well, powder came in. N105, A0, A1, & GM3. Also picked up a # of N350 at Cabela's. Of the 5 I loaded GM3 first - 5.0gr behind Bayou 140 TC. Found an Italian site that lists a 145gr load ranging
4.5 - 5.5gr, in 40 S&W.
This should be interesting :)
Kineti-Tech contacted me, no G20 option available. Kinda wondering why I waited almost two weeks to find that out...
Swapped out the Lone Wolf 3.5# connector / spring and reinstalled the stock parts. The D.A.T. v2
trigger seems to break cleaner, but requiring a little more force. I'll run this combo next chrono session.
As explained, each load is bagged & tagged, and after firing the cases are quickly inspected and placed in their bag - system works. The past session I noticed a split case. Nothing in itself, but the load
was marked NS (new Starline). Odd, but Starline's reputation for quality proceeds itself, and after pulling the trigger 1,800+ times on handloads, some hot, and loaded in 5X cases,
experiencing exactly three split cases, I'm a firm believer in that quality.
Measuring PRE I found something common that wasn't before, all brass was scratched from case head half way to the mouth. Eventually I came across the split-case load, a fairly mild one (0.4282 pre). Turned
out that two of that load's cases were split, and both splits appear to be along the scratch (gouge) that is present on all cases from that chrono session.
A damaged feed lip is the likely culprit, and as I have used the same magazine for all chrono testing out of the G20, I must have dropped it between sessions.
Some careful grinding with a dremel will fix it, but I've rendered a pile of brass to (likely) 2X max. Pics here.
Yesterday's results have been posted, I'll work on getting targets (about 30 have been added so far) and PRE added over the next few days.
Competition Electronics Digital Link: Updated the ap for my tablet, it now offers batch exporting of strings. Very helpful for someone who shoots dozens at a time. Except... In batch mode the
strings are reordered, or exported in an order other than fired. Not a big deal, unless your strings are ordered according to criteria - in my case, barrel used, or other configuration.
So the update, while entirely useful, is useless for my purposes.
Chrono & missed readings: A few of the strings are missing shots. Some time ago I replaced the metal sky screen rods with wood dowels, to protect the chrono itself from damage should a rod get hit. Problem
was the infrared light bars are heavy enough to cause the thin dowels to bend a bit, misaligning the light kit. Metal rods in place, all shots recorded.
175 Bayou SWC: The two initial loadings had COLs of 1.255 & 1.260 - both failed to feed in the LW barrel. I'll try 1.250 & 1.245.
Accuracy and fatigue: Past few weeks have been up at 4:30AM, home around 6PM, bed at 11:30. This past Friday it was lights out at 1AM, and up a 5AM. Pretty sure fatigue played some
role in Saturday's results. Heck, I walked 1.6 miles just swapping out targets :)
Heavy-bullet-for-powder loads: The inappropriateness can be discussed all day long, but the end result is they are what they are, and could prove useful.
Another fantastic day to chrono! Started out at 56 deg, finished 70 and sunny :)
Approximately 180 rounds fired today at 20 yards, through: G20, LW 5.15", LW 24LB, LW 3.5lb, Overwatch (Glock Kraft) D.A.T. v2 trigger w/ Gen 3 bar. I don't care for this setup, at all. The flat
trigger moves the pull back, and while I don't have large hands, it didn't work for me. The pull (I don't have a gauge) felt like it increased significantly, and break wasn't consistent.
After the first group of loads I wanted to put the stock shoe and bar back in, that bad. The quality of the trigger seems very good, and it's entirely possible the combination of components
is just, well, lousy. The flat trigger, and the resultant length of pull, can't be faulted because of it's design. I will try the stock disconnect to see what, if any, changes is made.
Accuracy, or the inconsistent lack of, is pretty frustrating. Some groups printed sub 2", some sub 1", some were over 6". Some recipes will work, some won't - some bullets will work better with
a given barrel than others. I get it. It's the heeling and wrist break up I need to fix.
Another issue affecting accuracy: The Mako mount uses the rail and, with the supplied replacement pin, the trigger pin as attachment points. Two small screws secure the mount to the replacement pin, and
regardless of how much they're tightened they work loose, allowing a small amount of up and down movement of the mount. I regularly tighten them, but it must be affecting accuracy to some degree. Loctite
isn't an option, as I want to be able to remove the mount regularly - that, and the slide can't be removed with the mount installed.
Contacted Kineti-Tech regarding the discrepancy in 'shipped' / 'not shipped'. They got right back to me, and explained when an order is pulled to fulfill the system generates a USPS tracking #, and updates
the purchaser's account to show 'shipped', when in reality it's being processed. Looking forward to trying their complete drop in kit.
The single D032 / #2 test showed similar velocities, more testing needed. Furthered the RMR D037.02 vs #9 comparison, and as the load climbed the numbers drifted apart.
Rocky Mountain Reloading (RMR) 180gr plated RN came in today, details on the library page. Cabela's powder order also arrived, loaded a #2 / D032 comparison.
I've compared D036.03 to #5, and D037.02 to #9, and QL thinks those Explosia powders are very similar to Accurate's counterparts, the similarity seems to end (at least with QL) at
D032 & #2. The predicted numbers are listed on AllPowders, we'll see Saturday.
Kineti-Tech's website has shown my order 'shipped' for a few days now, and I have a tracking number, but USPS only indicates 'pre-shipment info received' when tracked. Guess I
should email them.
Overwatch Precision (Glock Kraft) D.A.T. v2 arrived today, very quick shipping :)
Being a Glock, the trigger and bar installed in about 3 minutes, with no fit issues. Initial 'feel' is good, and range time is needed, but I suspect I'm about
to go down the dark road that is spring rates.
Ok, the 'log' is reading like 'benchrest's shopping list', and if I don't cool my heals I'll be updating from the doghouse!
That said, Cabela's is having a sale :)
$20 hazmat and free shipping, so I picked up a lb of unobtanium, #2, along with a lb of Blue Dot, True Blue, & #9, all extremely rare in these parts. #2 is less than ideal, but it will serve
for comparison against it's supposed twin D032-03.
For those who don't know:
D032-03 is reported very similar to #2
D036.03 " " #5 (Comparison)
D037.01 " " #7 (don't yet have D037.01)
D037.02 " " #9 (limited comparison with RMR 180gr so far, see AllPowders)
These Explosia Lovex powders are available from Powder Valley (packaged by Shooters World) and so far
seem to be twins (QL thinks D037.02 & #9 are the same) to Accurate's. More testing, of course, will happen.
Loaded a short ladder with 800X pushing Precision Delta's 200gr RN. Haven't quite figured 800X out - usually when the next charge increment results in a lower velocity & PRE, I 'DC' that load (at least for
the time being), and have done exactly that with 800X. Yet, there are many who are loading quite a bit higher. Perhaps this powder (and others) are hitting a node, and will continue upwards with the next
charge. Regardless, It's something I'm cautious about, and it was never the intent to rocket the 10mm past it's capabilities. Push the boundaries a bit, yes. Certainly there are well-known others who
have published what is assumed to be well-past-saami max, and if you load 10 you know where to find their recipies ;)
I'll just merrily continue this project: To document pedestrian, medium, and gun's-still-intact hot loads. End goal? To be able to grab any suitable .40 cal bullet, any one of (ultimately) 40 different powders,
and have a functioning gun.
Gone are 'PIC' and 'NT' columns. Primer pics were time consuming and of no real value, and NT was rarely used.
Bullets inbound: Rocky Mountain Reloading (RMR) 180gr match RN plated. RMR states a heavier than standard plating, a BHN of around 11, and suggests keeping velocities below 1,500.
I'll load a ladder and we'll see how they behave :)
Powders inbound: A1, A0, GM3, & N105. There's published data for N105 & A1. A0 has 40 S&W data to start with. GM3 has no pistol data, and purported burn rate ranging from #2 to #5,
should be interesting. Of the 4, only N105 is available in QL.
All targets from 03-19 are posted. Improvement is real, but my lack of fundamentals has been painfully illustrated. Trust me, I'm laughing with you :)
In addition to the Glock Kraft trigger, I've ordered a Kineti-Tech #4 drop in trigger kit.
An aftermarket trigger won't fix my non-existent skill set, but it may ease my loathing of the stock setup, and make shooting the G20 more enjoyable :)
Ordered a Glock Kraft trigger w/ gen 3 bar. High hopes but reasonable expectations. Should probably just buy an Elite Match and be happy :)
Pressure Trace II is formally in "planning stage", and if all goes well I'll be testing by July.
Picked up a bag of Remington 155gr JHPs, likely do an XTP / MG / Rem test with #7. Also grabbed a box of Sig Elite 180gr JHP w/ advertised velocity of 1,250. We shall see :)
AllPowders has been updated. Certainly there's some housekeeping, but the info's entered.
I think this may be the end of the brass pics - It's time consuming, and not really necessary. I'll mull it over.
I still have a long way to go in terms of producing repeatable accuracy, but improvement has been made! A few of the 'better' targets:
180 Berrys 6.8 Unique 15 yards 4X
155 XTP 13.3 #7 15 yards 4X
180 RMR 13.2 D037 CCI 350 15 yards 4X
Certainly most groups aren't this tight, and I've got a long way to got before I can know for certain it's the load, and not the shooter.
No, a Ransom rest will not be part of the equation :)
Fantastic day to chrono! Started out around 9:30 (it's a long drive!) at 55 degrees, finished the day about 5 at 65deg. Couldn't ask for better weather!
Got about 60 loads chrono'd, with about half of those being lighter 'starting' loads out of the stock barrel. The only info posted so far is several comparisons between
D036.03 & #5. They can be viewed here. The rest of the results will post over the next few days.
The Beartooth 200gr #9 "coated" load will have to be retested. While the bare version averaged 1,162 fps, the single coated shot clocked in a 1,247. I don't recall sizing the bullet
after coating, and I believe that's what caused a chambering issue - causing a slight setback, and higher pressure / fps. The single fired case (PRE) measured .4285, showed no smile, and
moderate primer flattening. Kinda stoked about where this bullet (as coated) could end up. 1,247 @ 690 foot lbs has nowhere to go but up :)
Made real progress in tightening up my groups (if they could get any worse!). By using a rest, adjusting grip and position on the trigger, results were almost immediate, both with open sights and
the new 4X scope. So much so that all the previous 'comic relief' targets will be deleted, and I'll be starting off fresh.
Speaking of the scope... It was inexpensive. Ok, it was cheap! I'm completely unfamiliar with pistol scopes, and I realize you get what you pay for, but *&^% the eye relief on this thing a pain in the
neck - literally! An inch back, or forward, and sight picture lost! I don't regret the $90 spent to experiment, but a better scope is certainly on my list, along with a more robust mount.
ACME 200gr RN arrived this past Friday, will get details up soon.
Zero 165 JHP & Lovex D037-02 just delivered. I'll load up some comparisons between the Lovex powder & #9.
Saturday is looking pretty good for range time.
Everglades 200gr showed up yesterday, initial loading is with #7.
Saturday is looking pretty good for a full day of chrono'n :)
ACME 200gr RN-NLG inbound.
Did a bit of barrier testing today.
Fired (no chrono) a few Buffalo Bore 200 (21A) out of the LW barrel for PRE measurement. At .4286, it's wasn't as expected.
1K of Starline arrived, should keep me in brass for a while :)
Weather continues to be miserable, will chrono when I can.
Loaded Everglades' 165gr JHP 9.2gr 800X with CCI 300, Remington, Federal 150, WLP, & S&B (more force necessary to seat in Jagemann brass than others).
Everglades 200gr FMJ inbound.
200gr Black Bullet Int & 165gr Everglades JHP showed up :)
1K Starline inbound :)
Probably should order a couple thousand more while it's available...
What 213 loads, bagged & tagged, look like.
Wanted a quick-glance mechanism to see what bullets had been loaded with what powder. Very much a work-in-progress:
10mmAllPowders quick reference bullet-by-powder chart.
Courtesy sample paks of Black and Blue Bullets' 190 & 200gr coated arrived today. Very cool of Tony! Thanks again!
Precision Delta 200gr RN FMJs now in the mix.
SNS 220s arrived, specifics in the usual spot. #9 & 800X for this bullet initially.
I cast & coat a BHN 11ish, some of the recent arrivals are advertised as 16-18, and just handling them (they have a metallic 'ring' when jostled) it seems they're a harder alloy. I've got a Lee hardness tester,
and since it's monsoon season, maybe I'll test a few.
Ordered a couple lbs of D037-02, supposed to be very close to #9.
Inbound: Zero 165 JHP; Everglades 165 JHP.
Temps are inching up, and the next weekend that isn't a downpour (SEE: Spring in PNW) I'm out chrono'n :)
Bayou 175SWC & 200RN showed up today, and as usual with Bayou, they were packaged well and arrived fast! Details over on the library page.
Precision Delta 200gr FMJ inbound.
Inbound are SNS Casting 220gr & Black Bullets International 200gr, both coated.
Like to get my hands on
Zero ordered & Magnus jacketed, but the smallest quantities I've seen for sale are 500 250ct, and I don't need 500ct of anything!
Gone are ES / MV / Group color bars. Too many bullets, too many loads, too much to look at, too much to track. Gone is NFT, NCI gets it done.
It's been suggested, and QL thinks they're identical, that D032.03 and #5 are very similar. Three loads (150 Sierra JHP, 155 MG JHP, & 180 Badman coated) will test that suggestion.
Out of MX cases to load processed last range seesion, now have 200 :) Down to the last bag of new Starline. Need to buy some brass :)
At 174 loads to test, and obviously can't possibly chrono that many at the next outing. Probably just grab a few handfuls and go, warmer temps are around the corner.
Coated a couple of the Beartooth 200gr GCs. Will put together a couple of 'identical' loads,
to see if there's any appreciable velocity difference between lubed lead & coated (RAL) - I doubt it.
Bayou 175 & 200gr inbound :)
Badman & Powerbond arrived, think I'll default to Longshot. Can't yet speak to Powerbond's quality, but in the day of getting 100ct in a taped up bag, the
box is fantastic, bloody display worthy!
My evolution of brass (spent case) pics. Yep, I know nothing about photography, and my camera
is in sore need of being updated.
Just don't see spending $600 on a DLSR 'kit', to take better pictures that nobody will ever look at, posted in a blog nobody reads.
Think I'll keep my crappy camera ;)
Everglades 180 JHP & Ibejiheads 200gr coated showed up, initial loadings in 3N37.
180gr Badman ordered.
ACME 180 & Misssouri 180 IDP #5 coated came in - loaded a few up with PP.
Picked up a box of Buffalo Bore 21A (200gr @ advertised 1,200fps) for $15 :) Will test pre next outing.
Checks & balances: Entering the new coated bullets into the details page I found a discrepancy - 200gr Blue Bullet was
listed as 180. A bit more disturbing was that I had entered it as 180gr into QL (bullet length was correct). Mild loads are now a bit warmer, but I feel fine pulling the trigger (800X load
might be a bit toasty, will load a ladder to climp 1st).
QL (computer model, potential to be in significant error)
Blue Bullet (as entered in QL)
180gr .649L 7.6gr Longshot 28.557K (target psi) psi (error in bullet weight)
200gr .649L 7.6gr Longshot 30.979K psi (correct bullet specs)
Blue Bullet (hypothetical entry into QL w/ incorrect bullet length)
180gr .623L 7.95gr Longshot 28.555K (target psi) psi (error in bullet weight & length)
200gr .649L 7.95gr Longshot 34.640K (correct bullet specs)
Not (again, predicted) over SAAMI, but well over the target psi of 28.5K. Reality is the only potential damage could have been to myself or my own weapon, as all published data was based off 180gr.
That said, this project has zero room for sloppy.
Mounted the Simmons scope. Looks a little silly. Regardless, dry firing at 4X really shows how crappy I am with this crappy trigger.
Apex have a kit for the Gen 4?
Finally found a bottle of BE-86! A few conservative loads have been posted.
Ordered PowerBond 165 & 180gr plated HPs. Highborn has free shipping (two or more items) right now.
180 & 200gr coated inbound from ACME, Ibejiheads, and Missouri, as well as 180gr JHP from Everglades.
Operation Slow Down!
Many loads are near my current parameters for peak, and it's not the proper season to determine absolute stopping points. Winter = cool temps = some
loads will be permanently reduced once the effects of summer heat on presssures are found.
So now is the perfect time to test
the scraps 9mm guys* wish they could chew on. What we call girl lighter and midrange loads.
There's nothing wrong with an accurate, 400 ft lb, sub 200 PF recipe
(probably hurts more to say than to get hit with one of these loads).
Besides, most plated and coated lead bullets ain't gonna behave past 1,300 - that, and the brass will be easier to find :)
It's also the perfect time to develop something resembling accuracy.
Yes, there really are 121 loads ready to test :)
* Totally being a smartass. Would 110% choose a 9 over a 10 in a SD situation. No really, I have 3 of them. Seriously. Not kidding.
Can't we all just get along!
Downloaded a chart that should help me understand why my target skills are so bloody bad. With some concerted effort and a few new tools, perhaps I can post
a target that shows if a load is minute of zombie chest, or better.
Inbound is a pistol rest, and a Simons ProHunter 2X. My hand might use some steadying, and my eyes some assistance. We'll see.
Near future purchases include:
Jacketed bullets from Zero and Magnus, coated from Acme, Ibejiheads, SNS, & Missouri.
Lone Wolf 6"
Registered 10mm-reloaded.com (and .net), and will eventually migrate everything over there.
The master file is an OpenOffice Calc spreadsheet, and conversion to html happens within the program. Much of the html file size is due to
how the program handles table cell borders, using CSS within each Table Data.
Example: TD STYLE="border-top: 1px solid #000000; border-bottom: 1px solid #000000; border-left: 1px solid #000000; border-right: 1px solid #000000"
That's partial border code for one cell. At 361 loads, with another 60 listed to test, that's over 14,000 lines (2.5Mb) of really inefficient html.
Not really sure how to fix it other than 'find & replace', deleting the individual Table Data border code, adding it to the Table tag itself. Certainly I'd loose some formatting.
Likely AllPowders will end up a 50,000 line, 7.5Mb file.
On my end the html version looks great with Chrome and Explorer, but craptastic with Firefox. Another reason to dump that bloatware.
Back to our regularly scheduled program:
155gr Gold Dot & 180gr Armscor in hand, bullet specifics in usual spot.
Barrier testing 3rd and final format here. 13 ply Baltic Birch faced with 3/4" of ceramic tile and two
layers of 24 gauge steel. 200gr XTP 13.4 #9 load will be the only test, and I don't have high expectations.
Recieved a bag of Mag brass from the good folks at Starline today :)
Loaded a gaggle of what I'm calling "Perfectly Serviceable Pedestrian" loads. They're inline with the thinking that not every trigger pull has
to kick the crap out of your gun.
Besides, there's nothing wrong with a 165gr bullet doin' 1,250 fps :)
Deleted some NFTs from faster-powder heavier-bullet combinations. They're not optimal, but I'll develop some useful loads out of them (not every pull of the trigger needs to put brass in orbit. Can't believe I just
Dumped Jagemann from the details at the top of the master file (AllPowders). Not that it's poor quality, the one test suggested it's good stuff - It's just a variable that doesn't need to exist
when Starline is proven and readily available.
Barrier testing V2 is complete. Results can be seen here.
Beartooth 200gr FNGCs arrived. Took 6 months - I knew about the wait time - I'm happy. Don't really understand 'unboxing' videos, but here's
some pictures :)
I've had a box of 180gr XTPs for over a year, yet not one load. Weird.
Almost picked up a bag of Armscor & Winchester brass for comparision testing, then asked myself why? Jagemann was purchased for pre against the baseline, that's done.
Starline is readily available, and has a proven track record. In all this madness it will remain the one constant.
But another barrel might be nice :)
Posted about half the targets from the last session. While I will post the remainder, they will be the last until I'm able to show marked improvement. Other then laughing at how
bad I am (I'm laughing with you :) ), they serve little purpose.
Even after passing through 24ga steel, 1/4" of ceramic tile, 3/4" 13-ply Baltic Birch, and a gallon jug of water, the 200 XTP ended up 12" into the wet sand. We'll see
how the other bullets do, but V3 will have to be a lot tougher.
Should test hot 9mm & .357 to see how they fair in comparision to the 10mm (V2).
I'd love to test auto windshield glass, but the logistics of transporting and cleanup seem a challenge.
I've got 155 Gold Dots, Beartooth gas checked, and 180gr Armscor TCs coming in. Maybe I should concentrate on commercial bare and coated lead for a while...
Note: I keep the log free of pictures, otherwise it would quickly grow to an impossible size.
Bit of barrier testing today - Final testing of V1, and started V2. Results linked on the index page.
Since my 15 yard groups are comically pathetic, I went on a wakabout in search of a solution. I believe I found what I'm looking for.
It's only a 10X, but I should be able to cut my groups in half :)
Barrier testing format V2 defined. 13 ply Baltic Birch, faced with 1/4" ceramic tile and 24 gauge steel. Don't really have an idea what the results will be.
Ordered some Armscor 180 FMJ TCs - Grafs has 100ct for $11.59. Shipping is 'free', but there's a $7.95 'handling charge' and a minimum $40 'online' order. Is what it is, so I ordered two bags and
a box of 155gr Gold Dots :)
Thinking about some lead (uncoated) loads... Stock barrel, BHN #s, notes if there was any leading... We'll see.
Possible components of barrier test V2 -
Predict most bullets will have a problem with this one 200gr XTP sure didn't!
Got an email from Beartooth, order placed 08/11/15 is ready to ship :)
In all fairness, I knew when I placed the order of significant wait times. Ordered 200gr LBTFN gas checked bullet, and without shipping they'll be some of the most
expensive I've tested ($31/100), so loads will likely be limited to #9.
Without shipping: In the age of get-it-in-two-days $6.45 flat rate Beartooth's charges seem a bit dated -
$2.50 'handling' charge + $9.82 shipping. Oh well, I'm sure I'll forget
these bullets cost 43 cents each once they're in my hands :) 02/07 Beartooth emailed an invoice - $8 for shipping for 2-day. Less $ and faster than quoted :)
There is now no distinction between 1X & MX fired brass - Fired is fired, and if neck tension or the primer pocket feels sloppy then it gets tossed. Contradicting what I've stated earlier that
it's NS for all loads, I'll continue using MX for bumping up lower tier, and NS for the last nudge.
Jagemann brass expansion is nearly identical to Starline, at least with the single test load of Longshot.
S&B large pistol primers are just a touch warmer than CCI 300s, negligible really. I'll test further.
Yesterday's forecast might have been off by a bit :)
V1, PT 1 of barrier testing (aka goofing around) is posted.
Mag primers do nothing for Ba7.5, at least not with a 155gr bullet.
Two issues: Chrono failed to read a few strings, and a few single shots within some strings. Turned out small snowflakes had landed on the sensor. I'll retest those loads; Barrel log
shows I'm over a thousand rounds through the G20, all loaded by yours truly. I've never had a primer ignition issue, but Saturday there were four (in the middle of the chrono session).
All CCI 300s, three fired on the second strike, one did not. New Starline brass was used, and by appearance the primers were seated properly. I'll call it user error.
I feel it necessary to state what I have many times - the BULK of the loads have NOT been tested in the stock barrel! If you don't understand why this needs to be said find out! It's your gun,
your fingers, your face...
Temperature: Many of the stopping-point loads have been tested a low temps, making them pretty useless in reality. As I repeat the ladders in spring and summer (80-95 degrees) I imagine a good
percentage of the loads will be DC'd. It's a given. Again, if you don't understand why this is important it's in your best interest to find out! The easy way, that is ;)
Testing will now be split between the stock and AF barrel, making the master list much more useful to most who own a G20.
Stupid number of loads to test has been the norm, not any longer. Not including actual loading or drive / setup time, or even chrono time: Qty 70 takes about 20 hours to process - Exporting the Digital
Link log into a single spreadsheet, transfering those details to the master file, noting primer condition and if smiles are present, measuring pre, scanning targets into pdf, photographing primer condition,
adding results to the 401-145 and 401-175 file, uploading and linking it all together. I make it sound like a obligatory chore, nothing is farther from the truth. I'm just spending way too much
time, and would hate to start hating it. So, 15 - 20 loads at each session, and maybe I can spend some time doing other things, like this :)
AllPowders has been updated, pictures and target scans will be added later this week.
73 load bagged and tagged. Loads and targets are put in the same order as entered into the
Digital Link app, makes the chrono session much more efficient.
If all goes well I'll test loads in LW and stock barrel, and get try out my barrier testing setup.
In seven hours I'll be here, away from it all.
Note: That's a picture of "The Woods", in case you city folk were confused :)
50 degrees. Popped off (no chrono) three rounds each of Buffalo Bore 180gr 21B, Win Super X 175gr Silvertip, and CorBon 150gr JHP.
G20 Gen4 LW 5.15"
CB 150: 0.4265 no smile
BB 180: 0.4303 slight smile
Win 175: 0.4290 slight smile
Feeling a bit more confident about where my own pressures are at.
If you subscribe to the thought that 1/10 thousandths over a real factory load is max, then I'm already way over pressure. I'm very curious about the BB results.
Hodgdon responded with confirmation of production dates for the HS-7 I purchased (see post 1/21) - t0293 &
t0494 translate to Feb of 93', and April of 94'.
Looking at the results from Norma factory components loaded into 1X brass with CCI 300 primers there are some conclusions that could be made:
1: The factory powder is very temperature sensitive.
2: The factory load used magnum primers.
3: The 1X neck tension was significantly less.
4: The brass metalurgy differs (case expansion was nearly identical, yet pressures (fps) were lower).
I'll work the test again, this time with new Starline brass and CCI 300s (not going to attempt magnum primers).
200 XTP 13.4gr #9 @ 1.255. QL states 126.5%
compression case fill. The is a compressed load (
see bullet nose ).
Received my replacement order from Precision Delta today (see 1/16 post), and they more than made up for any inconvenience I experienced. Very good customer service.
Hopefully they're able to get their email & web contact form issues resolved, as I'm sure anyone interested in their product would like the ability to contact them.
Barrier Testing loads will not be chrono'd, the format is nearly finalized.
It's common knowledge that cornflakes (800X) don't meter worth a darn. Here's an example of why (yes, it's actually
bridging in the funnel).
Here's where the magic happens (taper die is in the Reloader). Dedicated to 10mm, the press stand removes in just a few seconds, quickly
replaced with other caliber specific setups. Simple & cost effective, it just works.
Yes, I actually purchased every bullet and can of powder. The storage cabinet was specifically designed for the task -
made entirely of 3/4 plywood with each shelf supported by seven pegs.
Switched from the FCD to a Lee taper, crimping to 0.422. FDC was swaging the coated bullets. Next go around will tell if I get any feed issues, though I doubt it. FCD will go on
permanent bulge busting duty.
Got an email from Precision Delta (see 1/16 post) apologizing for the situation, and that they would reship my order.
Stock Glock loads: Put together 4 that I've already tested in the Lone Wolf barrel and would consider "warmer". Purpose is to see what case expansion the stock barrel produces.
Next chrono I'll see if Ba7.5 likes mag primers.
HS-7: Judging by the label, the cans seem quite a bit older. Codes are t0293 & t0494.
My assumption is Confirmed by Hodgdon 1/25, production dates are Feb of 93', and April of 94'.
I emailed Hodgdon, see if see response. Opened all three cans, powder
looks and smells like I assume it should. The chrono will tell.
Possibly Vectan is French for 'go slow', or maybe 'our MV is CIP rules and we used a 40.64 cm barrel'. My parlez-vous Francais sucks, so I can't be certain.
What I do know is that published vs. reality ain't close, so Ba7.5 is getting mag primer treatment.
Picked up a few lbs of HS-7. I won't spend too much time developing loads since it's discontinued.
New protocol for brass (primer condition) pics: Case on left = unfired, on right fired.
Example: This picture shows what I consider the beginning of heavy flattening, yet without comparison the primers don't appear
so. Compared to an unfired primer, they do.
New column added for primer condition (see Legend). A purely subjective visual evaluation, fired cases are compared side-by-side with a
primed unfired case. Only cases fired on 11/28/15 & 01/09/16 have had the primers evaluated.
Made the decision to stick to new Starline for load development. PRE numbers will be less polluted, and more importantly, smiled (shear) brass won't be mistakenly used for hot loads.
Something to test: I have a hunch that loads that just produce a smile in the LW barrel won't in the stock, due to the extra 50 thousandths.
For many powders it appears that smiles begin to show at 0.4285 case expansion.
Precision Delta: About a month ago I placed an order through their website, and while the charge went through I didn't get any type of confirmation / tracking number.
1/9 I received an empty USPS flat-rate box, with a sticker reading "Received Unsealed".
The return address didn't have a company listed, only an individual's name that I didn't recognize - Google of the address showed Precision Delta. I tried using their web
contact form to discuss the situation, but only got an error, and an email sent to the address listed under 'contact us' bounced back as nonexistent.
I called, got a message, no voice mail.
Made copies of the bounced email and the web form error, and sent them with the empty box via USPS 2 day on 1/11. As of today the package shows 'delayed' (delivered 1/19). Precision
Delta seems to have a rep for quality components, we shall see about their customer service. 1/23 update: Precision Delta more than resolved the situation, and I'm happy :)
Ordered 200gr Blue Bullets, and 185gr Precision Bullets. Since I cast & coat my own it'll be intersting to see how these commercial versions behave.
Got a ziplock bag of 180gr JHPs labeled 'XTP', but they don't look like XTPs - appears very similar to a Remington bullet I have. Mystery
bullet vs Remington. Same?
Stopped by Cabela's & picked up: Couple bags of Starline for a good price; 100ct of Team Never Quits (Jagemann) (for pre comparison against Starline);
Box of S&B LP, again for comparison; Box of Buffalo Bore
180gr w/ advertised velocity of 1,350 (pre).
What QL thinks about case capacity.
All QL predictions have been based on the default case capacity of 24.0gr (1.558cm sq). Measuring two new (unsized), and two (sized) multiple-fired cases:
Starline new 1: 23.34gr
Starline new 2: 23.30gr
Starline MX 1: 23.82gr
Starline MX 2: 22.96gr
9.0gr Longshot, 155 MG, 1.255.
NS 1: 28,792K, 1,249 fps
MX 1: 27,351K, 1,236 fps
MX 2: 30,053K, 1,260 fps
QL results (pdf) can be viewed here.
Casual glance suggests 1X brass is expanding less than new (suggested that 1X should be used for PRE). Can't help but think I've polluted the numbers, and need to proceed
with one or the other, not both.
Spent some time going through about 20 pull-downs from Underwood, DT, & PBR, and it seems I have room to grow. A few 800X loads caught my attention, generically I seem to be about a grain over.
DC'd a bunch of loads tonight, NCI'n the previous charge. Until I get a PT II up and running I'm stopping some ladders, at least that's how I feel about it right now.
Tools, however inconclusive, are immediately available: Hot boutique loads. PRE measurements of BB, DT, & Underwood, would offer some insight; The_Shadow's excellent pull-down work over at
10mm-firearms.com. Time consuming to go through, but it's all right there.
If BB feels it necessary to stop at load X with bullet Y, and I'm a grain over, well...
In the process of comparing my own velocities to those stated at Ballistics 101, specifically BB, DT, & Underwood. Not apples to apples, as they may be using non-canister, or blends, but it
gives me an idea of where a specific weight can be pushed to.
Installed a 3.5lb disconnect. Can't say I notice a significant difference (I had already done a 25cent job). Dry firing I did discover my finger placement (trigger) is just wrong. Moved it up,
higher on the trigger. A real improvement.
Most of the targets posted are pretty comical... I'll figure this gun out, develop the necessary disciplines, and try again ;)
01/09/16: Beautiful day to shoot, 46 degrees - didn't start raining until we were all packed up :)
1: The infrared light kit w/ batteries worked perfectly. Chrono set up without cover in a somewhat shaded area with clouds overhead. The entire session I think the chrono missed 4 shots, a massive improvement.
2: Shot the light kit barrier, and while I hit it higher than intended it functioned perfectly - didn't break the support rods or flip
the stop box. Pic showing 1/4" steel plate (in the middle).
3: I shot like $%#^ today. So much so I hate to post the the targets without a disclaimer stating it wasn't the load that was crap!
Honestly I haven't spent much time trying to be accurate with a pistol, dinging an 8" metal plate at 20 yards has always been good enough. Started off with an inexpensive red dot on top of a Mako mount,
and quickly abandoned it (none of the targets were the result of using the red dot), perception being something was off. Shooting under a 10X10 canopy using the Savigny sights I didn't produce any
better results. I shoot new 10mm loads with a 'shop grade' face shield, and about 30 loads in I switched to quality safety glasses - Improvement. 40 loads in I moved out from under the cover into daylight -
vast improvement in sight picture. About that time I felt I was beginning to figure out the Glock's trigger (I have about 700 rounds through the gun, and it's my first Glock), and if one were to flip through
all the targets in order some improvement would show.
A great day shooting, and I learned I need to develop some disciplines.
01/06/16: Sevigny sights installed, feel these are going to be a huge improvement over
01/04/16: Added LPLB column - Loads Per LB (pound). 7000 / charge weight.
The L column is for tracking powder canister lot numbers.
To date, with the possible exception of CSB-1 and Unique, all charges have come from the same canister.
01/02/16: Well, chrono'n won't be happening this weekend. 27deg, nasty wind =
disgruntled recognition that winter just started.
Completed Stop Box V2, now with infrared light kit barrier.
01/01/16: Installed the Mako scope mount - don't have high expectations, but it wouldn't be fair
to judge performance with such an inexpensive red dot. Pic. Sights are useable with the mount installed.
Note: I was unable to remove the slide with the mount on - makes barrel swaps inconvenient.
Weighed another bag of RMR
(no affiliation) 180gr FMJ open-base pulls. These are advertised as including some mixed-weight bullets. Of qty 500 the bulk of them weighed between 179.1 & 181.7gr, with the
average being around 180.5gr. Qty 13 bullets were outside of this range. I'll load them at 181.5gr.
What QL "thinks" about the variation, using Longshot (QL produces close velocity predictions).
179.1 1.255 8.7gr 1,213 fps 32,335 psi
181.7 1.255 8.7gr 1,208 fps 32,678 psi
Of course these are only predictions, and should not be considered reality.
New bullets from Precision Delta, Winchester, & Remington have been ordered.
12/31/15: Trying to chrono this Saturday or Sunday. Already know it'll be cold, but if the
roads are icy...
Picked up a couple lbs of Lovex D036-03. Burn rates appear to be close to #5, so it likely won't be pushed.
This next chrono session will be the first to include accuracy results.
12/27/15: Ordered a set of Sevigny Comp sights (.150 rear & FO front). Hoping these will be a
vast improvement over stock.
12/26/15: PTII. Current plan is to turn down the chamber end of a Lone Wolf barrel.
Construction on the 'platform' will begin shortly. PTII will be purchased this spring.
Accuracy: Should have been part of equation from the very beginning, and will be from this point forward (mostly). I'm terrible with the stock Glock sights, and have been linked to what seems
a real improvement, Dawson. Still, I'm not that good with what I consider 'good' pistol sights. To remedy my deficiency I've considered a slide melt / Fast Fire, but would hate to go through
the wait time and expense to find it's the wrong solution.
Enter the Mako Glock tactical scope mount. I don't have high hopes for this, but it's cheap and easy on / easy off. Pulled an inexpensive red dot off one my 22s, and hope the setup will give feel
whether or not this type of solution is the right fit.
The T column on the spreadsheet will, from this point forward, have a link to the actuall target. I may revist some loads as I refine my sight solution and trigger
Was going to spend today chrono'n, but 24 degrees proved an adequate deterrent :)
12/07/15: I've read that .4340 is the max expansion that some will load to. My
stock (Gen 4) barrel measures .4390
The max expansion I've realized is .4303 in a Lone Wolf barrel, it's chamber measures .4340.
The same load that produced .4290 in the LW produced .4326 in the stock barrel.
On another note: Tested the Stop Box with some 650-750lb stuff. Results.
12/06/15: Norma factory 170 & 200gr rounds have been pulled and re-loaded into
1X Starline brass. Too many variables for this test (PRE measurement) to be conclusive, but I'm curious.
170gr (.623") here and here.
200gr (.679") here and here.
Factory powder pics are linked on 10mmAllPowders.
12/03/15: Powder names are now links to pictures.
12/02/15: PRE measurements have been taken with a micrometer with 0.0005 resolution, not ideal. I've
ordered a unit with 0.00005 resolution, and will remeasure all brass from 11/28.
Took advantage of X-Treme's sale and purchased a box of heavy plated 165 - Look forward to see how they behave when pushed.
Infrared light kit has arrived, so no more missed readings :)
Need to order some BB & DT for PRE comparisons.
11/29/15: Processing brass pics from yesterday's chrono session I saw something I might normally not - a few
401-145 loads are firing out of battery, at least that's how I'm interpreting it.
The pin strike is certainly off center, and recently I've had a few chambering issues specific to this bullet (I belive I'm over crimping,
slightly deforming the bullet).
The 165 MG 8.9gr Longshot CCI 350 loads produced not only a suprising increase in FPS and the highest observed PRE, but the first smiles (minor) in the Lone Wolf barrel. Pics
Here & here.
Temperature: I've made comment that as the temps lowered I'd probably not test again until spring - I've since changed my thinking, and see some value in temp specific charge results.
11/28/15: 11/06's outting I had issues with the chronograph - I shoot in a shaded area, and the
sun was just too low on the horizon to get chrono readings every shot. 11/21 I'm prepared with a $10 DIY light kit, which while it worked in the garage (lights out) with a Nerf gun, completely failed out in
the wild. 11/28 was an 'oh yeah, forgot to order a light kit'!
So lots of 1 & 2 shot readings today. Light kit will arrive Monday :)
11/27/15: Thinking about tearing down Norma 170 & 200gr loads, and putting the components into 1X
Starline - Curious to see what the PRE turns out to be.
11/12/15: Picked up a couple bags of RMR (Rock Mountain Reloading) 180gr pulls - They're advertised
as having 'variance in weight'. 500 for $50? Why not give em' a try...
Yes, I actually weighed them - of the one bag of 500: 15 weighed 179.something; 1 weighed 175.something; 3 wieghed 165.something. The majority wieghed between 180.3 & 181.7, with about 2/3 in the 180.7 range.
I'll (obviously) follow 180gr data, and plug 182gr into QL.
Pics here, and here.
11/10/15: Load development and indicators: As this process nears / exceeds book data for some
loads I’ve come to the realization that I haven't decided upon a method for determining
a ‘stop’ point, at least not one that doesn’t involve the effectiveness of Spectra gloves.
Voodoo: Flattened primers are a comfortable reminder that something is happening, how that something translates into anything meaningful escapes me.
CHE / PRE: Better than nothing I suppose, but near useless in this context (AM barrel w/ tight chamber).
Practical potential: Pressure Trace II / compatible platform (Contender w/ a custom barrel?). Book pressures where available, QL predictions, and PT II results - sounds
like math might be involved… I am very much considering this option.
Until then I'll try not to blow anything up.
The bulk of the brass pics are crap, I recognize that. I have figured out how to get better results, so moving forward improvement can
be expected - an example here.
I shoot quite a bit of 115gr Montana Gold out of my 9. An accurate JHP, but not a 'defensive' bullet, as it wasn't designed to expand.
Yesterday was the first time running MG out of the 10, and I decided to 'water jug' test the 165gr JHP. The results were not as expected, and
can be seen here. A pretty mild load at 1,240fps & 563ft lbs, but it
destroyed the jug, imbeded itself 3" into a log, expanded to .517 and retained 125 grains (shed it's jacket). Not bad for an inexpensive bullet :)
11/06/15: Should probably take the position that a bad day shooting is better than a good day at work, but I'm having difficulty adjusting my attitude. Our shooting spot is in a
shaded area, and while I've never had an issue with the chrono before, I lost the light around 1pm - or 2/3 through testing. Six hours travel (round trip) tends to set my expectations at maximum.
Needless to say I've ordered a light kit.
D032 (Shooter's World Clean Shot D032-03, Explosia Lovex) has no load data for the 10, so I'm approaching things cautiously. Given Explosia's, and others, comments on how fast this powder is I'll likely
not push it.
I will comment that I really like the 147 cast 6.5gr load @ 1,240.
Vectan's Ba 7.5 & Ba 9 load numbers are wonky, I'll continue the ladder with hopes of something resembling a 10mm load.
3N37: Viht must have really dumbed things down, as initial factory data produced 9mm results (155gr @ 922fps, 293 ft lbs). I know there's potential, and I'll likely take larger steps to get there.
Until now I was singing only the praises of #7, and I still really like it's capability, but Longshot, Blue Dot, and 800X have decided to show up :)
Finally getting somewhere with #9... Seems like it started coming alive at 11.7 - Anticipating the 12.3gr numbers, and will load up to 13.5 for the next
I know there are bigger #s already out there - "no pressure signs at xx.x, acceptable case expansion at xx.x". I also realize there's little to no new ground to be broken with the 10. I enjoy this process,
and in the end I'll have a library of loads that work in MY GUN(s).
Accuracy, it is part of the equation, just not now: Seems backwards to run all these loads, and have no accuracy information, and I concur... But, most 'stock' handgun sights and I don't get along, at all.
My TP 9's are terrible, but I'm able to hit an 8" plate at 20yrds 10/10, and 7/10 at 40. I can do NOTHING with the stock Glock sights, nada, zilch. I'm going to look at aftermarket, and could really
use some recommendations (either email benchrest at webcity.net, or I post occasionally over at 10mm-Firearms.com).
Random: Locking slide, I suspect it's my grip on some of the heavier loads - I'll adjust next time out. Temperature: I'm concerned that as I push loads, and test at lower temps, that perceived 'safe' will
become a not-so-much during the summer (85+). To keep testing during the winter months I plan to keep cartridges in a heated cooler (70 degrees?), only taking them out to test. That, with running a
hot chamber should-maybe reduce the effects of colder weather on pressures. Same-lot testing #s next summer will tell. I do acknowledge that I'm handicapping the results with such a small sample per
test, especially when chrono errors happen. Unfortunately, up until now, it is what it is. The data is still useful, but it certainly could be more refined. Time is the factor here, and I'll either
continue as is, increase the sample count / reduce the # of tests, or find more hours in the day. Certainly as development is stopped with some combinations others can get more attention.
11/01/15: The plan is to chrono next Saturday (11/7), if weather permits. Rediculous number of loads to test - Likely the last trip until next spring, as the temperatures are
starting to cool.
Not that I mind the cooler weather, just 'warmer' loads would have to be retested at higher temperatures.
© 10mmreloaded @ gmail.com
any use of information contained within these pages constitutes an agreement to hold the author and web host harmless
copyright names property of respective owners. “GLOCK” is a federally registered trademark of Glock, Inc. and is one of many trademarks owned by Glock, Inc. or Glock Ges.m.b.H.